I mean... jiujitsu as a sport is different from pro wrestling in that both players are seeking to win combatively. So, sort of, both players are trying to "heel." But, I'm sure there are degrees to which they get into the domination aspects. LOL
Most of the pro holds I'm aware of have a pretty big "window" between when the victim feels some pressure/weight/tension/stretch, (which can be fun, even "hurty" fun), and when damage is being done to joints.
BJJ is not like this. As soon as it starts to hurt, your joint is taking some damage. That's why we tap. So,I don't know how you could hold someone in one and make them suffer in a struggling-to-endure jobber kind of way and not actually hurt them.
Chokes are different, you can play with them in pretty much the same way anyone plays (erotically or otherwise) with chokes. I mean, they carry danger potential, certainly, but there's nothing special about the chokes you find in jiujitsu, in that regard.
There are some positions you can make someone suffer in pretty safely, but most of them aren't submissions: knee on belly, thousand kilos, body triangle from back mount, headscissors (typically used just to control the head while you actually submit them with a shoulder or elbow or wrist lock, but you could hold the joint control short of pressure and squeeze the shit outta their head), north/south...
Upper body joints are a little more durable and tend to signal pain strongly; in other words, unless you're being insanely obstinate they'll hurt enough to make you tap before you're taking "I need surgery" levels of tissue damage... but if you do it over and over you'll probably manage to hurt yourself.
I would not fuck around at all with leglocks in the heel/jobber context you describe.
Like there's an entire approach to a jiujitsu top game (like, attacking from on top, with your opponent on the mat on their back, or their belly if they've really fucked up) built around making pressure on them. There's even a technique system called "pressure passing."
So you can certainly squeeze the shit outta somebody in jiujitsu. LOL
You sure seem to know a lot about this lol you can easily ease off the pain when someone locks the hold and slowly put pressure back on we jobbers love it
Right, what I'm saying is, that is also not a great idea. You could hold a joint secure in a position, but that's just restraint. Which, may be all a jobber is looking for if they're going for the theatre aspect of pro wrestling.
But if they're into feeling discomfort, bjj joint locks are different than most pro style holds in that they have no margins. Even if, say, an armbar is being applied with less pressure than would cause enough pain too make you tap, of you're feeling any level of pain/discomfort, your tendons and ligaments are already being damaged. Not as acutely, but if you play "not-quite-enough-pain-to-tap" too often, you're going to end up with chronic joint issues and doctors telling you ten years from now that you need shoulder surgery.
Aww! Damn, I really really enjoy the feeling of armbars and love to be kept in them for a while. But let me get this straight, as long as they’re not hurting, theres likely no damage occurring right? Still a bit sad you cant crank them a bit to make things more interesting.
But a surgery required type of injury is definitely not something I’m looking for.
If anyone needs me, I'll be over here watching my dreams of being heeled by a BJJ guy evaporate before my eyes 😂
Nah but these are excellent points IndyWarrior, thank you. Guess that means sticking with gogoplatas and rear naked chokes and triangles for one's jobber needs, and leaving out the joint locks - unless both the heel and jobber are willing to be theatrical and VERY LOOSE with what a "hold" is. I suppose I can always head on over to the Judo group and get held down by all the holds here haha
I mean, if the person I'm rolling with wants to set themselves up for a tap, that's cool. ;) But also, I feel that's kind of built into BJJ workouts and we call it "drilling" ;)
Hey all. Was just wondering if we had any heels around who love subjecting their victims through their favourite BJJ submissions, chokes, and holds; with or without a gi. Make yourselves known so I can plan a post-COVID vacation plan around you haha
I wasn't sure if "jobber" and "heel" only applied to promission, or if the bjj/judo around had its own terminology. In either case, say hi!
IndyWarrior (40 )
10/6/2021 00:32I mean... jiujitsu as a sport is different from pro wrestling in that both players are seeking to win combatively. So, sort of, both players are trying to "heel." But, I'm sure there are degrees to which they get into the domination aspects. LOL
Most of the pro holds I'm aware of have a pretty big "window" between when the victim feels some pressure/weight/tension/stretch, (which can be fun, even "hurty" fun), and when damage is being done to joints.
BJJ is not like this. As soon as it starts to hurt, your joint is taking some damage. That's why we tap. So,I don't know how you could hold someone in one and make them suffer in a struggling-to-endure jobber kind of way and not actually hurt them.
Chokes are different, you can play with them in pretty much the same way anyone plays (erotically or otherwise) with chokes. I mean, they carry danger potential, certainly, but there's nothing special about the chokes you find in jiujitsu, in that regard.
There are some positions you can make someone suffer in pretty safely, but most of them aren't submissions: knee on belly, thousand kilos, body triangle from back mount, headscissors (typically used just to control the head while you actually submit them with a shoulder or elbow or wrist lock, but you could hold the joint control short of pressure and squeeze the shit outta their head), north/south...
Upper body joints are a little more durable and tend to signal pain strongly; in other words, unless you're being insanely obstinate they'll hurt enough to make you tap before you're taking "I need surgery" levels of tissue damage... but if you do it over and over you'll probably manage to hurt yourself.
I would not fuck around at all with leglocks in the heel/jobber context you describe.
IndyWarrior (40 )
10/6/2021 00:37(em resposta à...)
Like there's an entire approach to a jiujitsu top game (like, attacking from on top, with your opponent on the mat on their back, or their belly if they've really fucked up) built around making pressure on them. There's even a technique system called "pressure passing."
So you can certainly squeeze the shit outta somebody in jiujitsu. LOL
JobberOtter (14 )
10/6/2021 18:49(em resposta à...)
You sure seem to know a lot about this lol you can easily ease off the pain when someone locks the hold and slowly put pressure back on we jobbers love it
IndyWarrior (40 )
10/6/2021 19:17(em resposta à...)
Right, what I'm saying is, that is also not a great idea. You could hold a joint secure in a position, but that's just restraint. Which, may be all a jobber is looking for if they're going for the theatre aspect of pro wrestling.
But if they're into feeling discomfort, bjj joint locks are different than most pro style holds in that they have no margins. Even if, say, an armbar is being applied with less pressure than would cause enough pain too make you tap, of you're feeling any level of pain/discomfort, your tendons and ligaments are already being damaged. Not as acutely, but if you play "not-quite-enough-pain-to-tap" too often, you're going to end up with chronic joint issues and doctors telling you ten years from now that you need shoulder surgery.
wrestlinaddict (64)
11/6/2021 07:58(em resposta à...)
Aww! Damn, I really really enjoy the feeling of armbars and love to be kept in them for a while. But let me get this straight, as long as they’re not hurting, theres likely no damage occurring right? Still a bit sad you cant crank them a bit to make things more interesting.
But a surgery required type of injury is definitely not something I’m looking for.
IndyWarrior (40 )
11/6/2021 14:56(em resposta à...)
Yeah, as longb as it's not hurting, you're pretty good.
JobberOtter (14 )
10/6/2021 21:30(em resposta à...)
Yikes thats not good I think I’ll just take a guillotine choke to get tortured in then 😅
DavidArsalan (4)
10/6/2021 23:19(em resposta à...)
If anyone needs me, I'll be over here watching my dreams of being heeled by a BJJ guy evaporate before my eyes 😂
Nah but these are excellent points IndyWarrior, thank you. Guess that means sticking with gogoplatas and rear naked chokes and triangles for one's jobber needs, and leaving out the joint locks - unless both the heel and jobber are willing to be theatrical and VERY LOOSE with what a "hold" is. I suppose I can always head on over to the Judo group and get held down by all the holds here haha
IndyWarrior (40 )
11/6/2021 00:06(em resposta à...)
Well, like I said, there's still kinds of ways to make a guy suffer in jiujitsu; as Terrence pointed out, chokes can bed on the table.
I just wouldn't use joint locks.
But, have a 200 guy put his shin on your chest and rest his weight on you, trust me, you'll get all the jobber torture you can handle. 🤣
JobberOtter (14 )
11/6/2021 06:28(em resposta à...)
Lol sounds good to me! Jobber life will always be my life!
berimbolo (1 )
09/6/2021 22:28I feel like everyone is a heel in BJJ? :D
I mean, if the person I'm rolling with wants to set themselves up for a tap, that's cool. ;) But also, I feel that's kind of built into BJJ workouts and we call it "drilling" ;)
IndyWarrior (40 )
10/6/2021 00:38(em resposta à...)
More like everyone is a heel hooker. 🤣
berimbolo (1 )
10/6/2021 14:08(em resposta à...)
I despite smaller joint locks...lol.
IndyWarrior (40 )
10/6/2021 15:33(em resposta à...)
I promise to only kimura you, bro. 🤙🏻
JobberOtter (14 )
09/6/2021 15:57Ohhh I would love to get dominated by a Bjj heel!
DavidArsalan (4)
09/6/2021 00:46Hey all. Was just wondering if we had any heels around who love subjecting their victims through their favourite BJJ submissions, chokes, and holds; with or without a gi. Make yourselves known so I can plan a post-COVID vacation plan around you haha
I wasn't sure if "jobber" and "heel" only applied to promission, or if the bjj/judo around had its own terminology. In either case, say hi!