Gutpunching give/take/trade

Although I like to slug hard and deep, I respect a Jobber's limits for pain. I like it when his stomach skin is reddened, external. It is a sign of success, that Jobber can show off proudly to his next Heel...bring it on!!!👊🏻👊🏻👊🏻👊🏻👊🏻👊🏻💥🥵🔥

For me the problem with taking too many hits (regardless of spreading it out over a few hours) is how the abs become sore in the next few days - not just when you cough but also if you press them (feels like a bruise) - I am curious though whether this is what others like, any takers/ receivers who prefer a long workover can confirm it?

I kind of prefer it to be such that when you press on your gut, the pain is only on the inside and there is none outside, which I guess can only be achieved by a really strong shot - cos taking hard hits completely unflexed/ without tensing up at all (like sucker punches) seems quite unsafe...right?

"I kind of prefer it to be such that when you press on your gut, the pain is only on the inside and there is none outside" – how much "inside" though?

One simplified way of thinking about this is in 3 layers:

• outer layer: skin and fat – low risk of injury, good healing ability, low trainability
• middle layer: ab muscles – low risk of injury, good healing ability, high trainability
• inner layer: internal organs – high risk of injury, risky healing ability, low trainability

So when you say you want "inside pain", it makes me worry because I think maybe you are aiming for injuries of your internal organs – which definitely can cause a KO, but I think it is risky. So instead of that I would like to steer you towards hurting the muscles.

But maybe by "inside pain" you meant the muscles?

Would you like to clarify?

"taking hard hits completely unflexed/ without tensing up at all (like sucker punches) seems quite unsafe...right?" – yes I agree. It is the most painful/pleasurable indeed (see video around the 11-12 minute mark – and the guy is a somewhat trained fighter, taking it semi-unflexed), but has the highest risk on injury – and therefore lowest repeatability.

Actually you're right, I prefer it "inner layer: internal organs – high risk of injury, risky healing ability, low trainability".

Indeed it's more risky but that's why I won't be completely unflexed, in fact just very recently I noticed that being totally flexed isn't ideal either cos somehow my resistance would make me feel like I'm about to poop, whereas semi-flexed works best (still protects internal organs from injuries and even when a very heavy punch is strong enough to penetrate in, the impact is still concentrated around the navel area rather than spread throughout the whole belly like when completely unflexed).

Yeah also lowest repeatability - over after a few minutes of a few shots - but I prefer "inside pain" not the feeling of being bruised (even if they can't be seen) when pressed or coughing/ sneezing.

just very recently I noticed that being totally flexed isn't ideal either cos somehow my resistance would make me feel like I'm about to poop – keep working on it; I think what you describe happens when you are not doing gut punching with an empty bowel, and have incomplete muscle control, and you have not flexed all your muscles (including the ones stopping defecation).

I recommend always try to do gut punching with an empty bowel, with no gas, and practice/train complete muscle control during your abs exercises. You with proper training and control you should be able to flex your core/midsection (abs and all other muscles of your core) for 2 minutes in a lying position with your upper body and legs just slightly raised off the floor, while another guy of your own weight standing on your abs. In fact this should be comfortable. It does take some training, but it is not out of reach.

There's nothing for me to work on - you said that when you're gassed you can be KOed very easily even if you're flexed, whereas for me I won't be KOed if I'm completely flexed because the punch can't pass through all my flexed muscles so any pain stops there (feeling of being bruised) but doesn't go inside (instead I get the feeling like about to poop) which is why I found that semi-flexed is the best and also means I shouldn't even train at all - by the way I can already take a guy 1.5 times my own weight standing on my abs.

Well then, enjoy!

thanks, u too

Personally, I think some of this depends on who is hitting you and how. A good puncher has decent aim and their punches will be pushing through my flexed / semi-flexed stomach, eg they are aiming to hit the wall or some other object that's behind me. That's why kicks, stomps or knee drops are sometimes a better experience than a vanilla punch because the hitter is rarely able to stop their foot / knee at the exact moment of impact, so you get a heavier force.

Those kind of heavy punches, even when the puncher is pushing the envelope, are actually easier to take than where the puncher is aiming to hit the surface of my stomach - that ends up being more of a slap, which as you point out, results in smarting of the skin if you take a number of hits like that. When I'm the punchee for a long session consisting of those 'through' type punches, my abs will still get bruised (reddened) and are tender when being used for a few days (like when I cycle or lean forward in a chair), plus the underlying muscles also ache (which I enjoy), but the pure 'surface' pain is lessened.

It also depends on the kind of punchee you are - I like a long session that has a mix of different hit types (punches, elbows, knee drops, heels, stomps, kicks etc - even with blunt objects if desired), with me being directed by the puncher to get into different positions (standing, kneeling, laying down, stretched out etc), to be flexed, semi-flexed or unflexed and crucially - with a puncher who uses a mix of different intensities. The best punchers know when I'm starting to weaken, so they ease back a little on the intensity or change another factor to keep things interesting and to prolong the session. Personally I don't want a 'session' to be 3 minutes of full power jack hammer punches until I give out. Nor do I want it to be standing like a lemon waiting 5 minutes between each random hit, whilst the puncher wanders around, talks and dances about like you see on some videos.... I'm there because I want to be hit, I'm putting my abs under duress for my and the punchers pleasure - I'm not going to move out of the way. Hit me hard - bang on the navel - and I'll move back into position for the next hit. Ideally I want to be slowly worn down over 1-2 (or more) hours, using the different approaches outlined above.

Each to their own of course :-)

As usual, you are spot on and took the words right out of my mouth (pun intended)! Only a handful out of all the guys I've met could "punch through the target" but the thing is that they were actually the ones who weren't into gutpunching - they just welcomed a challenge, which is indeed more like "3 minutes [or less] of full power jack hammer punches". My guess is that this is precisely because most (if not all) other people who are into gp prefer long sessions instead.

"punch through the target" – I thought that is basic knowledge for all hard contact combat sports (e.g. kickboxing). have you met many trained fighters? That's what you will get from me if we ever meet.

yeah those who did it know how to fight (whether trained professionally or untrained) but they're not from here and not actually into gutpunching

yeah those who did it know how to fight (whether trained professionally or untrained) but they're not from here and not actually into gutpunching – I have met a few guys who are trained fighters and are also into gutpunching. I can strongly recommend the experience.

Lucky you! There are already very few trained fighters here where I'm at, so for them to happen to be into gutpunching is even more unlikely.

so for them to happen to be into gutpunching is even more unlikely – I suggest you not to think like that, you might automatically exclude guys with that thinking. my guess is that at least roughly half or a third of the guys into fighting like gutpunching as well. Or maybe I just live in a lucky place where I found clubs where guys who like both gather. Any guys enjoying the sensation of fighting (and not just the win) probably also enjoy gutpunching.

I always try to ask fighters so there's no way I'd exclude them, instead it's their reaction (rejection) that made me think/ conclude like that - less than half of them would welcome the challenge but only out of curiosity or just to test their own strength and then after doing it they soon lose interest.

Great commentary!

totally. Surface bruising is not the fun part.

yeah...oh but what if there is no visible bruising on the skin/ surface and instead it only "feels" sore "like" a bruise when your abs/ muscles get tensed (whether by pressing them, or involuntarily by coughing/ sneezing)?

I agree, I prefer deep penetrating shots to surface pain/soreness, both as giver and receiver. I wouldn't say unflexed is inherently unsafe, not much moreso than any punching, but you'd definitely want to be careful where you're hitting.

right at the navel is probably safer than kidney/ liver/ solar plexus, but still i thought unflexed is unsafe for hard hits cos wouldn't that smush the intestines?

"right at the navel is probably safer than kidney/ liver/ solar plexus, but still i thought unflexed is unsafe for hard hits cos wouldn't that smush the intestines? "

I think (!) hitting the navel unflexed has a higher risk of causing a rupture/tear of the diaphragms in the navel area – and thereby a navel hernia – than hitting (through/on top of the) muscles.

But this is a different issue than damage to the internal organs.

I think (!), with regards to intestines, there is the issue of how much gas you have in your intestines currently, because gas (having low mass) can be jerked around easily and tries to find its way around towards the weakest point and could potentially cause rupture of the intestines. I think (!) if you are not gassed, your intestines can take much more without risk of damage. At least this has been my personal experience with flexed: when I'm gassed, I can be KOed with body shots very easily, as they hurt much more; however, if I'm free of gas, I can take much more. Again, this is for flexed.

There are no "diaphragms in the navel area" though - it's only one and it's higher up near the solar plexus (behind the navel is only intestines). A hernia is a protrusion so it doesn't seem that hitting the navel (in) can cause it - and all these are indeed actually the issue of damage to internal organs.

I wonder if taking punches unflexed while having gas will just cause it to be punched out lol!

There are no "diaphragms in the navel area" though - it's only one and it's higher up near the solar plexus (behind the navel is only intestines). – please look up umbilical hernia

Yes I did, you should too and please also look at the photos: "An umbilical hernia occurs when part of your intestine bulges through the opening in your abdominal muscles near your bellybutton (navel)".

Umbilical refers to navel, nothing to do with diaphragm: "The diaphragm, located below the lungs, is the major muscle of respiration" (as mentioned it's one muscle not many, and it's higher up not in the navel area) - please look up diaphragm.

Yes I did, you should too and please also look at the photos: "An umbilical hernia occurs when part of your intestine bulges through the opening in your abdominal muscles near your bellybutton (navel)". – in a healthy individual (before umbilical hernia) there is a tissue inside the abdomen that keeps intestines from coming through the navel. in an umbilical hernia, this tissue is broken/torn, thereby not keeping the intestines in, but letting them bulge through the navel; hence hernia.

My point below is that this kind of damage is more likely to occur if you receive punches unflexed (compared to flexed), and if you receive punches on the navel area (compared to other, better muscled areas).

Abdominal fascia covers not just the umbilical/ navel region and there are also other areas which can have abdominal hernia (e.g. hiatal hernia and handlebar hernia).

Hmm "other, better muscled areas" like where - lower (bladder), higher (solar plexus/ diaphragm/ sternum), left (spleen), right (liver), both sides (kidneys)? Are you saying that punching at the navel area (intestines) is more dangerous/ risky than any of these? Because this is my first time hearing it, whereas everything/ everyone I've seen online says to avoid those areas and aim around the navel instead - unless the objective is actually to cause damage (take out an opponent) or pain (preference in gutpunching).

I LOVE when my abs (the muscles, not the skin) are bruised, and very much enjoy it for several days or longer, and I love to milk the feeling by pressing and poking them. And it is extra FUN to spar with bruised abs.

On the other hand, I hate when my skin is bruised.

does this mean that u like the feeling of being bruised but just not actually seeing the bruises?

"does this mean that u like the feeling of being bruised but just not actually seeing the bruises?" – not entirely; I LOVE feeling the bruises, and I'm not against (in fact I like) seeing them as well.

What I don't like is when the limiting factor is the damage to the skin, and not the damage to the muscles.

You see, for me this whole fighting and gut work thing is about training to be fit and strong and testing oneself along that effort. And you can train your muscles a lot, but you cannot train your skin much. Plus it is your muscles doing the work when you exercise or fight.

That is why I prefer gut work that tests/hurts the muscles, but saves (does not hurt much) the skin.

Yup makes sense, I guess for you it's like how many people like the feeling of muscle aches after working out/ lifting weights at the gym.

Gloves can test the muscles while saving the skin, but then they also take away the feeling of skin contact.

Yup makes sense, I guess for you it's like how many people like the feeling of muscle aches after working out/ lifting weights at the gym. – exactly; I think this causes positive hormonal responses as well, that help build muscle.

Gloves can test the muscles while saving the skin, but then they also take away the feeling of skin contact. – yes, that is exactly my reason for it; my skin is not very tough, perhaps that is why I'm not much interested in skin contact. Can be fun as a finisher though: once the muscles underneath are broken, then I like when the gloves are taken off, and let the bare knuckles do more damage.

One of the ways I job for guys much smaller than me is to let them take a head start. I lie on my back and they get to hit me in the gut before we start. This is anywhere from 2 free shots to my friend who is 180# and uses nasty double axe handles to the 90# guy once who I let have 10. Ideally I am in trouble when the match starts and I don't have to job in order to lose. Added bonus, I take a number of hard shots to my gut.

I like the idea about starting out with hard punches to see how many you can take before you drop. It's the same thing with trampling, another of my fetishes. Normally you start by stepping carefully up on the guy, but I prefer when the session starts with the guy just jumping up on me with his full weight. I gets much more intense this way. You can see how big/heavy the guy is so you pretty much know what to expect. With GP however it's much more difficult to know how hard a guy punches, so you're taking a bigger risk here. Of course this also makes it much more exciting ;) The downside is that it probably will be a very short session, but of course you can continue with other activities.

Hello your not the only one punching a stretched belly sounds and feels grate . I like my puncher to have a good clear shot directly into my navel .. Please log in to view gallery photos.

Heel here. I like it when my Jobber falls to the ground, especially when I untie his wrists from above his head, where I have held him in bondage during the slugging. I test his limits. I aim for his NAVEL, always with my bare knuckled fists, some slugs to the lower abs. I don't untie him until his stomach skin is nicely reddened...all ready for his next Gut Puncher! 👊💥🥵🔥

Sounds short but fun.
I guess the guy who goes down first then has to take some lighter shots as punishment for his failure?

Each to their own but personally....I've always enjoyed our multi-hour sessions ;-)

Heya! Hope you're doing great =D

so far online i've only seen it end once he gives up and/or goes down

I think it was more fun working your abs over for a longer period. They were pretty resilient - would be a shame for a potential 2 hour session to be over in 2 mins.

I guess the body shot challenges seen online really intrigued me...but speaking of which now, I just remembered that I used to like watching gut stabbing scenes as a kid (although strangely not anymore).

I am watching your videos. They are not bad. But if you want better one-shot challenge, find punchers who have better technique, and are bigger/stronger. You could receive 2-3 times as hard punches then.

And then if you want real one-shot challenge, find kickers with good technique and/or fighters who can knee with good technique.

Here is an illustration:

This kick is about 20-30% power of what would be possible with a good kicker; if you look, you see this kick does not land clearly, and does not penetrate much: it was thrown during a fight – and not in a relaxed clear situation like it will be when someone kicks you deliberately with preparation for maximum power. But because it lands on a sensitive area, it still causes an almost KO. (German fighter Michael Smolik likes to do this kick to this area all the time, find some matches of him if you like to see this kick, to see what effect it has on many fighters.)

So I just wanted to give you hope that you still have great hope to develop, because there are still much much harder shots that you can eventually grow up to take.

Thanks, the pro fighter and street fighter in my videos already have the best technique out of everyone I've met so far - which is why the current record is two shots (from either of them although the street fighter's punch felt a little bit stronger maybe because he's heavier). So currently the issue is indeed size like you said and not about the technique because a bigger fighter who has the same technique should be able to drop me in one punch, but unfortunately there are no western (usually bigger than asian) fighters here for me to meet.

The fact that it's so easy to drop somebody with one kick is exactly the reason why kicks are not used in one-shot challenges, and also kicks tend to miss even way more than punches (which many people are already not accurate with).

Sorry you don't seem to understand that it's actually the opposite - I'm hoping to be able to meet stronger punchers (who can drop me in one hit) precisely because the shots are not hard enough.

Be blindfolded and take the punch unflexed

mmm...not quite the same (feeling)

"the best technique out of everyone I've met so far" - which of your videos has the hardest punch? because I think the techniques used are not the best.

"The fact that it's so easy to drop somebody with one kick " - no, a properly trained fighter, who is prepared for a kick, is not easy to drop with one kick. it might need 10-20-30 kicks. if you train your abs to be strong enough where you cannot be dropped with punches anymore (if you do impact training of your abs – e.g. slamming a medicine ball into your abs 100-200 times during a workout – it will come soon), then you will have to progress to kicks.

"kicks tend to miss even way more than punches (which many people are already not accurate with). " - I think this true in general, but it is a question of training. there are some pretty precise kickers.

If you ever come over here, I'd be happy to experiment with you. with punches and kicks.

Either of the two titled 29 Nov 2020, and no offence but actually every single puncher in all my videos used better technique than what you showed in your profile video which I just watched (your punches seem to have neither power nor accuracy).

No, even a properly trained fighter who is prepared for a kick will drop in one if the kicker uses full strength - again as mentioned the proof is the fact that body shot challenges are all punches only (and in fact most of them even wear gloves which soften the impact instead of bare fists).

Ultimately the practical result matters more than any theory - being able to hit as hard as possible without missing at all - which is already difficult enough to find so it makes even less sense to search for precise kickers.

I'm one of those guys who usually goes for the workout type of sessions. My personal experience as a jobber is usually the heel enjoys that as well.
But if I was with a heel who enjoyed gut punching bellies hard and right away to take his victims out or who wanted to start right out with hard and brutal nailing shots to my solar plexus to take me out with as few of shots as possible, me being the jobber I am, I would say yes to such a thing. One sided of course.
I would definitely let the heel punch me his hardest right away if he wanted too. And he wouldn't have to think twice about anything if he knocked the wind out of me or otherwise put me out of commission. Please log in to view gallery photos.

As a giver, I’d be interested in it. As a taker, not so sure. (The Ryan Garcia body shot challenge videos are really great, but I don’t think I’d like to be the receiver for that.)

yeah saw them too and i'd love to try taking his body shots! (but without gloves or padding and only aimed properly lol)

Almost everybody I come across who is into gut punching enjoys a "workout" of starting soft or moderate and then slowly building up to harder blows.

Seems nobody (whether giver or taker) has any interest in something more like those "body shot challenge" you might see online where the goal is to drop your opponent (whether one way or mutual trade) in as few powerful hits as possible, ideally a single killer punch.

This is especially obvious from the downvotes I've gotten on my videos and blog lol!

I'd be more than up for this, if we can ever meet. This is what I love most.

not sure if i got it right, which one do u love most?

" the goal is to drop your opponent (whether one way or mutual trade) in as few powerful hits as possible, ideally a single killer punch. " - with the addition that as a kickboxer, I would prefer kicks and knee strikes.

i see, a kick or knee is much stronger than a punch though and so one would most probably be enough to do it

with a properly trained fighter one will not be enough. that's where the fun starts (for both)!

I like that challenge! Let's see who drops first mate

What you are asking about is what trained boxers all do to condition their abs to be hit. We all do "wall work" and we all do it. We start off light and do 50 to 60 hits, then we go harder 50 to 60 punches. As we toughen up, we all want to feel this. this is how we harden up. Its a training thing.

Do they know how to punch at the ground with a few seconds to spare because that's where I be at from the 1rst punch

The guy doing the slugging here looks like he is having a good time. But, I don't see many hard punches, they are more like slaps.

Nope sorry that wasn't what I was asking, you're basically explaining one of the reasons why you do the "workout" but nothing about the "body shot challenge" that I was describing.